| Norman Finkelstein: I was of course happy to
meet the Hizbullah people, because it is a point of view
that is rarely heard in the United States. I have no
problem saying that I do want to express solidarity with
them, and I am not going to be a coward of a hypocrite
about it. I don’t care about Hizbullah as a political
organization. I don’t know much about their politics,
and anyhow, it’s irrelevant. I don’t live in Lebanon.
It’s a choice that the Lebanese have to make: Who they
want to be their leaders, who they want to represent
them. But there is a fundamental principle. People have
the right to defend their country from foreign
occupiers, and people have the right to defend their
country from invaders who are destroying their country.
That to me is a very basic, elementary and uncomplicated
question. My parents went through World War II. Now,
Stalin’s regime was not exactly a bed of roses. It was a
ruthless and brutal regime, and many people perished.
But who didn’t support the Soviet Union when they
defeated the Nazis? Who didn’t support the Red Army? In
all the countries of Europe which were occupied – who
gets all the honors? The resistance. The Communist
resistance – it was brutal, it was ruthless. The
Communists were not... It wasn’t a bed of roses, but you
respect them. You respect them because they resisted the
foreign occupiers of their country. If I am going to
honor the Communists during World War II, even through I
probably would not have done very well under their
regimes... If I’m going to honor them, I am going to
honor the Hizbullah. They show courage, and they show
discipline. I respect that.
Interviewer: That is an accurate description
of the situation before 2000, but after 2000, the
Israelis withdrew from South Lebanon. There was a rift
within Lebanon between the Lebanese political players on
the issue of the future of the weapons and the issue of
the resistance. This rift, which has taken place... You
are now taking sides. After all, you are saying that you
are only visiting Lebanon, but you don’t see the
ramification of the July war for the people.
Norman Finkelstein: Listen, if you want to
close your eyes and believe it was all over in May 2000,
you can do so. You can play that game. But the reality
was – and everyone understood it – that the Israeli
attitude was: We are going to knock out Hizbullah. They
began planning for a new war right after they were
forced to leave in 2000. They found their excuse, their
pretext, in July 2006, but there is no question among
rational people that Israel was never going to let the
Hizbullah victory go by. They were determined to teach
their...
Interviewer: The war could have been avoided.
Norman Finkelstein: It could not have been
avoided. There is no way that the United States and
Israel are going to tolerate any resistance in the Arab
world. If you want to pretend it can be avoided, you can
play that game. But serious people, clear-headed people,
knew there was going to be a war sooner or later.
[...]
Do you think there is not going to be another war? Do
you think Israel is going to allow that defeat in July
2006? Do you want to pretend it is Hizbullah that is
causing the trouble? No, there will be another war, and
the destruction will probably be ten times worse – maybe
even more – than July 2006, because Israel is
determined, with the United States, to put the Arabs in
their place and to keep them in their place. Now, how
can I not respect those who say no to that? You know,
during the Spanish Civil War there was a famous woman –
they called her “La Pasionaria” – Dolores Ibárruri, from
the Spanish Republic. She famously said: “It’s better to
die on your feet than to walk crawling on your knees.”
Interviewer: But that is up to the Lebanese
people in its entirety.
Norman Finkelstein: I totally agree. I am not
telling you what to do with your lives, and if you’d
rather live crawling on your feet, I could respect that.
I could respect that. People want to live. How can I
deny you that right? But then, how can I not respect
those who say they would rather die on their feet? How
can I not respect that?
[...]
Israel and the United States are attacking, because
they will not allow any military resistance to their
control of the region. That’s the problem. If Hizbullah
laid down its arms, and said: “We will do whatever the
Americans say,” you wouldn’t have a war – that’s true,
but you would also be the slaves of the Americans. I
have to respect those who refuse to be slaves.
Interviewer: Is there no other way than
military resistance?
Norman Finkelstein: I don’t believe there is
another way. I wish there were another way. Who wants
war? Who wants destruction? Even Hitler didn’t want war.
He would much prefer to have accomplished his aims
peacefully, if he could. So I am not saying that I want
it, but I honestly don’t see another way, unless you
choose to be their slaves – and many people here have
chosen that. I can’t really say... I can understand it –
you want to live. I can’t really say I respect it. You
know, so many dead, so much destruction... Before the
bodies are even buried, before the buildings are even
rebuilt, the person who is responsible for it all – you
can’t wait to welcome him. You can’t wait to roll out
the red carpet. I can’t respect that.
In that respect, I like the Jews much more. I like
their attitude. Do you know what the Jewish attitude is?
Never to forgive, never to forget. I agree with that.
Who roll out the red carpet less than two years after
your whole country was destroyed by them? The Secretary
of State said it was the birth pangs of a new Middle
East. That’s the statement of a freak. A human freak
would compare the birth of a child with the destruction
of a country, and yet, there are people here who are so
anxious to welcome her. They are trying to figure out
what the Americans are thinking. They can’t wait for
their banquets. How can anyone respect that? I respect
the Jews a thousand times more - never to forgive, never
to forget. All the death and all the destruction – and
you can’t wait to welcome him.
Interviewer: Norman...
Norman Finkelstein: It’s disgusting!
[...]
Who the hell cares if Bush is coming?
Interviewer: But you say there will be another
war.
Norman Finkelstein: You should have declared
him persona non grata. He’s not welcome here. He
destroyed your country. He was responsible for the war.
You know full well that resolution could have been
passed three weeks earlier. He destroys your country,
and you can’t wait to greet him. You have no
self-respect. How can you expect other people to respect
Arabs, if you show no respect for yourselves?
[...]
If the Lebanese people overwhelmingly vote to let the
Americans and Israelis have their way, I guess you have
to accept that. I could see that. I couldn’t possibly
say that they don’t have the right to make that choice.
Listen, in Nazi-occupied Europe, you have to remember,
most of the populations made the choice to live under
the Nazis. All this talk about a French Resistance is
just a joke – it never happened. The French
Resistance... About 20% of the French population read
the Resistance’s newspaper. There were maybe 10% of the
French who resisted. The rest said: “Don’t resist,”
because the Nazis were ruthless. You resist – four
hundred are killed for each soldier who’s killed. That’s
how the Nazis operated. So most of the French said, like
you: “We want to live.” “Don’t resist.” But now I have
to ask you, in retrospect: Who do we honor? Do we honor
those who say: “Let us live,” or do we honor those who
said: “Let’s resist”?
[...]
Leaders come last. There will be a leader who comes
to power in Israel, who is willing to make the
concessions, after the conditions have been created –
namely, Israel has to suffer a defeat. |
